Heat Treat Radio #94: A North American Alliance — 3 Managing Directors Speak

Meet the Managing Directors (01:20)

I want to start with Peter Zawistowski, managing director at SECO/VACUUM Technologies, one of the newer companies of the SECO/WARWICK GROUP.  Then, we have Marcus Lord, managing director at SECO/WARWICK Corporation. Both of those  companies are currently located in Meadville, western Pennsylvania. We also have Earl Good, managing director at Retech Systems, LLC, located in the Buffalo, NY, area.

Earl Good: I’ve been with Retech 6 years in April. Time has flown by fast. There have been, certainly, some interesting developments with Retech over the years. We relocated the business from Ukiah, California to Buffalo, New York. We originally had an office on Main Street in Williamsville in 2018. We found a new facility here that allows us to do manufacturing and assembly as well as have office space. We have about 40,000 feet for manufacturing and assembly, 10,000 square feet of office space. We are actually looking for additional space because of the growth and development we’ve experienced over the last few years.

When I came into Retech, there were some issues and some challenges that the company was facing. We’ve overcome those, and we’ve certainly moved in a good direction.

Prior to Retech, I was with Metso Minerals. I worked with Metso Minerals for about 13 years. I was moved through various positions there. My last position, for the last 7 years, was the vice president of ETO  (“engineer to order” group). I was responsible for four different divisions on a global basis and increased that business from about 150 million euros to about 250 million euros a year. It became the second most profitable division within Metso.

This opportunity came along, and it was a different challenge. That’s what piqued my interest here.

Marcus Lord: I’ve been with SECO for 9 months now. I came on board at the end of June (2022), basically looking at reestablishing the SECO/WARWICK manufacturing footprint in Meadville. That’s a “work in process” right now, rebuilding the team. We have a considerable amount of folks that are looking at retirement and trying to pass on some of that legacy knowledge to new people to spur additional business growth.

Prior to SECO, I worked for Carpenter Technology Corporation for 3 years, metal manufacturing for specialty alloys. Prior to that, I did two greenfields, one for Oerlikon Metco and one for Wyman-Gordon PCC. Both of those were powder atomization materials, so a lot of “end use” more so than manufacturing of the equipment, which gives me a good understanding of what people want from equipment.

Peter Zawistowski: I’m in Meadville, PA. It’s hard to say how long I have been with SECO/WARWICK. I’ve been there 20 years, officially, but to be honest, it’s been since as long as I can remember that I’ve been around vacuum furnaces. I was basically born inside a SECO/VACUUM furnace, so that’s how long I’ve been with the company.

I’ve gone through several different positions: service engineer, engineering, sales, and currently, managing SECO/VACUUM here in the U.S. We are responsible for our vacuum furnaces for North America.

Doug Glenn: For those who don’t know: the global headquarters for the SECO Group is in Poland. Peter actually comes from there. You agreed to relocate your family, and you’ve been in the States now for how long?

Peter Zawistowski: For quite some time; I think it’s 10 ½ years or 11.

Doug Glenn: Peter is the link back to Poland which we will talk briefly about.

Markets and Products (07:00)

Can you give a snapshot of the markets you serve and the products you supply?

Peter Zawistowski: 50% of our products are single chamber furnaces, standard from toolbar up to 25 bars of gas quench furnaces multigraphite.

The next would be vacuum oil quench furnaces in which we’ve developed a new design, I believe, 15 or 20 years ago. This is where, I think, we are leading the market. I believe the competition is 5 to 10 years behind us in this product.

We have a lot of new developments or new products like pit LPC, like 4D Quench, which is like a single piece quench. We are always looking for some custom projects. We like those; we are not afraid of those and we can do them.

Doug Glenn: In a nutshell, SECO/VACUUM Technologies is dealing primarily with vacuum heat treat furnaces and all things around that including any type of specials, customs, etc. That’s where your strengths are. Marcus, how about SECO/WARWICK Corp.?

Marcus Lord: SECO/WARWICK Corporation has a pretty big portfolio of equipment. Right now, I know a major view is on CAB lines. We’re seeing a lot of inquiries on the continuous or controlled aluminum brazing process as well as aluminum processing equipment for annealing large coils of aluminum or sheet and foil-type aluminum. Then, back to some of the roots as atmospheric-type furnaces, so roller hearths, mesh belt and things of those sort. Those are, basically, customized to the customer’s preference, so we have a huge catalog. Lately, we’ve sold some actual aluminum melting-type furnaces, so large tilt melting furnaces.

Doug Glenn: Earl, let’s go to you.

Earl Good: We supply vacuum melting equipment — melting of metals and alloys that have a high melting temperature. Our typical industry markets are aerospace, medical, defense, and energy storage. Our primary furnace types are the electron beam furnace, a PAM (plasma arc melting) furnace, and a VIM  (vacuum induction melting in a bar). We also have powder atomization technology and our melt spinner technology.

R&D in melting is growing for us, because we have a couple different furnaces we can operate. We have a lot of customers who don’t have the need for an excessive amount of material. They don’t want to purchase a furnace, so they come to us asking us to melt a certain amount over the course of a month or a year.

We have a broad base of technologies that we can offer the market, which is good, because some of the aerospace work can be cyclical in nature; but the other furnaces and other options that we have make up for that.

We work with mostly titanium, nickel, and various alloys associated with aluminum and nickel.

Technological Niches (11:25)

Doug Glenn: Is there a specific technology that you feel is really your company’s strong suit? Something you really feel comfortable doing?

Earl Good: I’m going to highlight two different technologies: I think our PAM technology, or plasma melting technology, is the best on the market. We have more installations than anybody out there. All of our furnaces have, basically, satisfied their performance requirements.

Another area I’d like to highlight is our powder technology. We’ve been a little bit behind some of our competitors in the market, but we’ve really developed some good things that are going to provide opportunities for us in the market. We have a number of customers coming to us to look at those opportunities now. I think those are probably the two most unique and best that we have to offer.

Peter Zawistowski: Our single chamber vacuum furnaces are one of the best in the world, currently. We also have some new products. We are trying to get to the market our 4D Quench furnace. It is a special system to vacuum carburize and then single piece quench. This is the unit we are implementing in the U.S. We are getting good references, and we are getting great results.

We are also focused on LPC, in general. All of our furnaces are equipped with LPC which, I think, the industry is moving to vacuum carburizing. That’s the big focus right now with SECO/VACUUM.

Doug Glenn: People are saying in many areas in heat treat, we ought to be focusing much more on quench than heating. Anybody can heat the thing up. The real key is, can you quench it? Especially when you’re talking about surface hardening and things of that sort.

Peter Zawistowski: Exactly. And in 4D Quench, this is where we can control the distortion to the level close to gas quenching; that’s the key to success.

Marcus Lord: I would say that our CAB (controlled atmosphere brazing) lines are probably the best in the world. We have a lot of competitors that we’re seeing pop up out of Asia, but I believe that we still hold the market share for that type of equipment. Like many of our other pieces of equipment, we are able to customize based upon what the customer really is needing to achieve.

I would say that with the big push to reduce carbon footprint of these manufacturers, SECO still has the technology for their bayonet electric heating processes. We’re not held up by somebody else supplying us with that type of product; we can build that in-house and supply a very efficient furnace when it comes to electric heating.

New Technologies (15:20)

Doug Glenn: Does SECO/WARWICK have anything to offer in the aluminum market?

Marcus Lord: In Poland, we are starting to offer the vortex 1 and 2.0, which is being developed. Those are options we are going to introduce along with predictive maintenance programs that have been developed out of Poland.

Doug Glenn: I want next ask about new technologies, things that either are currently commercialized, or soon to be, that you feel good about. Peter, why don’t we start with you? What do you think as far as vacuum technologies?

Peter Zawistowski: We have quite a few new technologies, but I think I will tell you more about LPC. As I said, all of our products are equipped with vacuum carburizing. I think that this is where the industry is going right now with the current trend of limiting the carbon footprint and sustainability. I know that in the U.S., it’s maybe not that common right now, but you are aware that most or all of the big European companies will have to report carbon footprint starting in 2024.

If any of the U.S. companies would like to do business with Europe, like with German automotive industrial airbuses of the world, you’ll have to do the same. To do that, you have to limit your carbon footprint.

In carburizing, you must switch technology. Right now, the most common carburizing technology or equipment is Integral Quench (IQ) furnaces, and you must do something with it. There is a need. It will happen that there will be a switch to low pressure carburizing; this is where we can help.Earl Good: A lot of our furnaces are customized. Through the R&D trials and toll melting we do, we are able to develop new technologies. There are two areas that I want to highlight.We put some time and effort into developing a small-scale atomizer that is more like a lab-type atomizer. Ours is a little bit more robust than our competitors’ units, and it has more capabilities. For example, you can melt different materials on it. We’re very eager to get that out into the market and make our first sale.

The second is our plasma gas atomizer. We do receive a lot of interest in this product right now. It’s different from what’s out there. Much of the market today, as far as powder and atomization, is batch process; the yields are not great. We believe that the plasma gas atomizer will increase yields. It allows ongoing melting which is going to provide a lot of options to customers who have the need for a more robust process, as far as their powder production.

We’re really excited about both of those and getting those out.

Doug Glenn: Is development of those products driven by the AM market 3D printing?

Earl Good: Yes, but you have universities and others who want to do things on a smaller scale, on the trial basis so as to not invest a significant amount of money. They want to see that the technology is going to work or see the products they’re developing. There is a real need for that, and I think there’s a need for something more robust than what’s on the market.

Marcus Lord: We have new technologies on aluminum processing.

The Vortex 2.0 is a new technology. I believe three Vortex 2.0 systems have been sold and are not yet fully commissioned. This will give us an upper hand on how we go about heating our materials on an efficiency standpoint, especially when we’re looking at the carbon footprint and how we are going about processing our materials.

Other than that, we have some technologies based on a customer preference, technologies that may not be a staple or standard on all our equipment.

Collaboration (22:53)

Doug Glenn: There are very few thermal processing technology companies that have the breadth of capabilities from everything from atomizing, arc melting, heat treating, vacuum heat treating, and air atmosphere heat treating. How do you cooperate to synergize these technologies? Do you find it beneficial, and/or is it helpful that you’ve got the three separate companies working together?

Earl Good: In my opinion, we haven’t worked great during my previous years here. We do get along. I think we have the opportunity to work together much more as we move forward. We started to do that in some different areas. We’re looking for a facility, right now, to spread our U.S. footprint for manufacturing and assembly. I think it will be a shared work facility.

Each of us brings a different set of skills and talents to the industry. We have the opportunity to leverage some of those to the benefit of the whole. Products are in demand that are made in the U.S., and I think we’re going to be in a good position to service that market. I think all of us are in positions where we’ve seen our businesses start to grow and improve, so I think it gives us a great opportunity to work together.

Marcus Lord: I think it is beneficial to have collaboration amongst all three of us and our different businesses. We’re able to support one another, especially from a technology aspect. If there are questions, you have an outreach program, and we are open to work with each other. Like Earl said, we’re all looking to expand. SECO Corp is looking at making an expansion and still retain the offices in Meadville, but we’re also looking for another location to be able to give us a little bit more bandwidth.

For my group, we’re looking at a lot of operations happening in Mexico. That’s something that we really need to look at from a support aspect. Being three businesses relatively close to one another, it is overall beneficial for all of us.

Peter Zawistowski: It’s not only beneficial for us, but I it is beneficial for our customers. For example: Earl is offering a furnace, and my equipment is like auxiliary equipment to his, so we can offer a full package to the customer. We have expertise across the three companies that we can support and provide all that is needed to customers. I think that is a big benefit.

Manufacturing in the United States: Present and Future (26:50)

Doug Glenn: How has manufacturing in the U.S. been in the past and what are the future plans?

Earl Good: I can throw a couple comments out. Our past manufacturing in the U.S. was done out in Ukiah, for Retech specifically. Ukiah is a great place for wineries and vineyards, but maybe not an industrial furnace manufacturer!

Originally, there was a desire for us to leave all manufacturing and assembly in the United States, by the past CEO, and then we found this facility here in Buffalo. The new CEO, Sławomir Woźniak, said, “Hey, could you guys do some manufacturing and assembly here?”

I said, “Yes!” I think my chin hit the floor, and I was drooling because I thought it was exactly what we needed.

We have the 40,000 square foot facility here that we’ve already filled. We have a customer base that wants more manufacturing and assembly. Having additional manufacturing and assembly, with what we have within Retech — in Poland, in some of the areas, China, and India — gives us a way to support all of our customers’ needs. Some customers are looking for low price options, some want things built here in the U.S. As we become maybe less globalized and more centralized as far as focus, I think we’re going to be able to support all of those different needs for our customers and do it well.

Peter Zawistowski: We are looking to start manufacturing and assembling vacuum furnaces here in the U.S. As Earl said, we had our facility in Ukiah; we had our facility in Meadville. We had two or three companies in the U.S., and we were doing it in different places. Now, we would like to consolidate and leverage the fact that we have three companies here in the U.S.

It’s not only about manufacturing. We are also thinking about bringing some R&D activities here to the U.S. Currently, I think that more often we sell technology, not furnaces. We would like to be able to provide that service to our customers, as well, here in the U.S.

Marcus Lord: Manufacturing was part of the deal of me coming on to SECO. It was really to reestablish what was being done.

Whether or not it makes sense to do full-blown manufacturing (because that’s a huge capital expense upfront) is one thing, and then, of course, training people to be able to do the processes. It makes more sense for us to actually do subassemblies or manufacturing of maybe a smaller part of what we’re looking at, as far as the equipment, and being very specialized on what we do manufacture. That will leave the larger projects either internally or external. As you said, we can’t be really good at everything we do, so we’ll pick and choose what we’re really good at and just exploit it from that point and then grow.

Doug Glenn: There have been major supply chain disruptions over the last couple of years. Can you address supply chain issues for each of your businesses? Are you seeing any difficulties? How much is re-shoring driven by supply chain issues?

Marcus Lord: Part of the directive is to try to be able to control our supply chain and also have better control of when we’re able to deliver equipment — that’s key for most of the customers. They want lead time even more than price. Where we’re seeing the impact for our pieces of equipment is definitively PLC systems. Outside of that, we don’t see much of a disruption. Maybe with some high nickel product that we use in our bayonet heaters; outside of that, it’s restricted to those two items.

Peter Zawistowski: I think we can see the supply chain getting better. But it’s not only the supply chain, it’s also transport cost and time. Right now, we would like to ship the equipment from overseas; but it’s twice as much money and twice as much time. That’s another problem we would like to address.

Earl Good: I think the supply chain varies. What’s kind of unusual in the market right now is you have a project where part of the supply chain works well and the other part not so well. Then, with the next project, it’s the exact opposite. The feedback I get from a lot of suppliers and even some of our customers is that they still have a difficult time finding people, and when you don’t have the people it’s hard to deliver.

Generally, things are improving and hopefully they continue to go in that direction. In the electronic PLC control-type technology, that’s where we see the biggest delays, as Marcus has indicated. That’s an area that is not showing signs of getting better right now. I think, as some of these chip manufacturing facilities come online, you’ll see a big improvement there.

Doug Glenn: How would you categorize upper management in Poland and their vision and their support of what’s going on in North America?

Peter Zawistowski: Expansion in North America is one of the primary goals on the group level right now. All of us are getting a lot of support from the group management. [blocktext align="left"]Expansion in North America is one of the primary goals on the group level right now.[/blocktext]This is the philosophy of the company. We have companies in India; we have companies in China and in the U.S. That’s why we have companies in the local market because they understand the market the best. Our company, in my opinion, is very important.

Doug Glenn: Do you characterize the presence in Europe as being supporting but not micromanaging? They’re giving you freedom and giving some goals to hit and saying, “Go at it, team.”

Peter Zawistowski: There is a direction we all follow but, yes, we have a lot of freedom, ultimately, in the U.S.

Earl Good: I think the support has been great. I think we are given a lot of flexibility as far as how we go about our business and operating it. I think there is definitely a desire to see us grow in the U.S., and I think they’ll give us the tools, the technology, and the ability to do so.

Doug Glenn: Some people, in North America, will say that it’s going to be very difficult for SECO/WARWICK (any one of these three companies, not just SECO/WARWICK Corporation, but SECO/VACUUM or Retech), to survive in the North American market because they have a global headquarters in Europe. What do you say to people that would say that?

Marcus Lord: I would definitely tell them that’s untrue. This is actually the second company I’ve worked for that has most of their operations in Europe. Both of the companies have been very, very successful at going out and putting their footprint on the industry and the marketplace and actually providing equipment, depending on the technologies, that is far superior than what our competitors have.

As far as being able to go into North America: There are directives, there are things you have to follow, but that’s with all corporations. At that point, they might want others to believe we won’t be successful because we’re European-driven, but that’s very untrue.

As Peter has said, we have a lot of autonomy to run the business, we have objectives, we have KPIs that we have to hit. The major idealism is to be profitable and have quality product. With those, it’s easy to drive a business to be successful; it doesn’t matter where it’s managed from.

Peter Zawistowski: My competitor in vacuum heat treating has headquarters in Germany, and nobody seems to care. I think it’s normal. We have a big presence here in the U.S., and that’s all the better.

Earl Good: I think I would add that our competitors try to push that our headquarters are in Poland and maybe our products aren’t as good. I’m a firm believer that if you deliver a good product on time, if the product starts up well, and if you take care of your customer, it doesn’t matter where your headquarters are. Customers are going to find you. They’re going to enjoy the experience and come back to you. We’re seeing a lot of our customers come back to us for additional equipment. I think that our competitors can push that all they want. The reality of it is, if you deliver on your customer’s needs, you’re going to have success.

The Future of SECO/WARWICK in North America (37:53)

Doug Glenn: What are you optimistic about regarding the future of your specific company?

Earl Good: That’s a broad-based question, but we had a very good year in 2022. I think we’re headed to a very good year in 2023, and our focus is on continuing to grow, continuing to develop products that the market needs and wants. I think we have some good things that we’re working on in R&D, so I’m very optimistic about our future and about our direction. We’re on the right path and doing a lot of the right things.

Marcus Lord: With SECO/WARWICK Corp., we closed the year out with a very large sale. That is continuing into 2023 where we have a growing backlog which is good. It shows we’re continuing to service the industry and also providing quality equipment. I don’t foresee that diminishing at all; I just see it growing. As we support one another, that’s the best way to continue our paths.

Peter Zawistowski: We will continue to grow. I see a big opportunity for us in the U.S. SECO/VACUUM is a fairly young company; it’s 5½ years old. I think we will get more market share by having satisfied customers.

Doug Glenn: What is most exciting about what you’re doing in the market right now?

Marcus Lord: I guess I’m a workaholic, so that really helps. I’m actually on vacation right now and here I am working. I’ve been doing emails and that’s just part of the business, right? For me, it’s putting the bridges back in place that should have always been there, that deteriorated just through the history of SECO Corp. along with SWSA, and really growing the label. All I’ve heard is negativity and what that negativity does to me is it actually drives me to make the business better. It’s more personal than it is a corporate thing because I like proving people wrong. That’s what drives me.

Earl Good: I think the energy comes from the fact that we’ve made tremendous progress over the last 5+ years. We’ve seen Retech change our image in the market; there were definitely issues and problems. The fact that we see customers coming back to us with repeat orders indicates that we are delivering to our customers, meeting their needs, and satisfying them.

I always say if you go above and beyond the customer’s expectations, everything else takes care of itself. That’s where I’d like to leave it. I think we’ve made great progress and I see good things in our future.

Peter Zawistowski: Personally, I like the fact that every day is different and every customer is different. One day I will talk to a heat treater because he needs a furnace to heat treat nuts and bolts. The next day we have to develop a new power train for a helicopter, or we have to set up a reactor for new fusion energy. I don’t think there is any other industry or anything else than heat treating that you can actually touch a number of different industries. That’s what I personally like and what drives me every day.

---

 

To find other Heat Treat Radio episodes, go to www.heattreattoday.com/radio.

 

---

Search heat treat equipment and service providers on Heat Treat Buyers Guide.com

---